Steve: You’re listenin’ to Jonesy’s Jukebox on Indie 103.1 and I’ve got my friend Marco Pirroni in the studio. How are yer mate?
Marco: I’m alright
Marco: I’m alright.
Steve: It’s been a while since I seen you, when was it? When was the last time I saw you?
Marco: Couple of years ago.
Steve: In London?
Steve: That was…must have been longer than that.
Marco: No it wasn’t.
Steve: I weren’t there two years ago, I was there like four years ago.
Marco: Well that was it then, it was four years ago.
Steve: Yeah, well it ain’t two then, is it?
Marco: No, not really.
Steve: Lets ‘ave a look ‘ere. (Picking up cd cover). Dave Berry…that was Dave Berry, “Little Things,” and as we were playin’ it, Marco said that he did a gig opening for you and Adam and the Ants.
Marco: We thought, right to do a really special show in London at the Electric Ballroom or somewhere - where ever it was - and we got Dave Berry out of retirement to do a gig…and we were talking to ‘im and he actually wasn’t very good. He opened up with “High Ho Silver lining,” but you know he’s got…his big gimmick was to not be seen by anybody.
Steve: Like mysterious.
Dave Berry not hiding!
Marco: It’s a bit boring like innit, like you can’t see ‘im – just hiding, it’s not much. laughs). Hiding behind things, it’s not very spectacular is it?
Marco: So, “Are you gonna do any more gigs?” And he goes “Yeah I’d like to make it really big, you know one day again.”
Marco: “And I’d buy loads of scenery.” And we said, “yeah.” And he said, “I could hide behind it.” We thought, “well what do you mean?” He says, “yeah well I can hide behind it and then no one can see me.” And we thought, “Well where’s the entertainment value in that?” That’s not, that’s not really gonna excite an audience. “Hello, you can’t see me.”
Marco: He sung the whole first song offstage like he didn’t come on for about two numbers and we were thinking, “what’s he doing?” you know, “what’s all this about?” “He’s out of his mind.”
Steve: Well he was pretty popular at one point weren’t he?
Marco: Yeah he was good.
Steve: In the sixties. And his whole thing was that mysterious…
Marco: Not being seen.
Steve: And scaring…
Marco: Oh yeah and like black gloves and all that.
Marco: But not the, “not being seen thing” is a bit boring.
Steve: Well maybe er, how did he look, did he look alright.
Marco: He looked like that actually. (Picking up cd cover).
Steve: So he weren’t that bad.
Marco: No he was a big tall bloke with really big hands – hence the gloves I suppose.
Marco: Hence not being seen, I don’t know.
Steve: Probably had a big knob as well then.
Marco: I didn’t see.
Steve: You didn’t see it? (increduously).
Marco: He should have got that out and waved it.
Steve: You didn’t see it though did ya?
Marco: He should have threatened the audience with it.
Steve: Maybe that’s the only thing you could see…behind the scenery.
Marco: You could see nothin’
Steve: Like behind the fake plastic tree he could have his knob (hanging) out at the side of it.
Marco: No all you could see was this band playing and this voice coming from nowhere. The audience was completely baffled as I was. What…(slight pause) Is going on?
Steve: It’s kind of cool in a way though.
Marco: Yeah it is cool for five minutes but then after 35 minutes it’s a bit dull. And then he would like hide…the first thing you saw was his leg, his leg came out, then he pulled it back in again. Then he put his hand out.
Steve: Ow, a little tease, yeah.
Marco: This went on for a while.
Steve: Maybe it was a kind of a form of a male strip tease thing?
Marco: Well he didn’t take his clothes off, well if he did we didn’t see it. He might have done it behind it. He probably did! He probably took all his clothes off behind the scenes.
Steve: He was probably bollock naked ‘avin’ a wank behind some tree or something. (Pure speculation!)
Marco: Dunno, but he didn’t want anyone to see that!
Steve: And before that was the Wolfmen, which is your new project right?
Marco: That’s my new band, my new project, yeah.
Steve: “Needle of a camel’s eye,” obviously.
Marco: Needle in the camel’s eye.
Steve: That’s what I said, don’t argue…
Steve: And that was Eno’s first single.
Marco: No it wasn’t, it was just the first track of his first album.
Steve: Weren’t it a single?
Marco: Don’t think so. It might have been, I’m not sure.
Steve: It’s a good song though.
Marco: It’s a brilliant song.
Steve: You do a good version of it.
Marco: Thank you Steve.
Steve: I was surprised actually.
Both laugh…Marco choking…
Steve: So when did you start this idea of the Wolfmen? Are you alright?
Marco: (Coughing heavily) No. About a year ago. Someone said, well it was Sam who said, “You should do a band.” So I said, “Oh alright.”
Steve: He’s your partner?
Steve: Like in a record company, with The Slits?
Steve: And you got them, and you got that “SEX” one that I got. (“SEX Too fast too live, too young to die.” The CD is on the "Only lovers left alive" record label. It's a compilation cd of all the records that were on the jukebox in SEX, Malcy’s clothes shop.)
Steve: Jukebox and you got the “Granny takes a trip,” one. (Boutique in London).
Marco: So anyway, he said, “You should form a band cos you’re not doing anything, so I said, “Yes alright,” with no intention of forming a band. Then I met up with this mate of mine, Chris Constaninou who had another band called, “Jackie on acid.” He said, “If you come and play guitar with my thing, I’ll come and play bass with your thing.” So we did that. “This is a bit stupid, (in)‘stead of havin’ two separate bands, why don’t we just ‘ave one? “
Marco: So we called it the Wolfmen, cos it was a better name than “Jackie on acid.”
Steve: Yeah, yeah, it’s a good name. Did you search, make sure no one else has got it?
Marco: There is er, there’s a neo nazi bike gang in Berlin…
…Also called “The Wolfmen.” Cos we had to pick them of course, you know.
Marco: So I mean, we’re not goin’ to play Germany, or even go to Germany.
Steve: So you can still use it, as long as you don’t go to Germany?
Marco: We can still use it, as long as they don’t beat us up, yeah.
Steve: They’re probably poofs.
Marco: No they’re…they’re.. yeah they are actually.
Steve: Are they the real deal, are they like???
Marco: I dunno.
Marco: They do look gay.
Steve: They got like leather hats on?
Marco: They’ve got leather hats on and chains on across the front and no trousers.
Steve: Yeah, that’s gay, they’re poofs. Probably don’t even have bikes, probably have banana choppers.
Marco: What, what do you mean the “banana choppers?” What with the sort of bananas…
Steve: Pushbikes, pushbikes, yeah.
Marco: Banana seats?
Marco: (Amused) And training wheels? (AKA stabilis(z)ers).
Marco: And satchels on the back.
Steve: Ok, well we started off with “Wolf mother,” that your lot are the knock-off of
Wolfmother, right? That’s the mothership. And your like the “wolf men.”
Marco: Yeah, we’re an off shoot of “Wolf mother,” yeah. We decided that we, we were in
Wolfmother for about three weeks but we didn’t want to do bloody Stonehenge so we left
Steve: Right! (Laughs). That was a song called, “Stonehenge,” it was weren’t it? “Mind’s eye,” that was called. We’re gonna visit the Duke. We’re here with Marco Pirroni, the founding member of Wolfmen and the bike gang with the trainers and we’ll be right back after these lovely messages, fanx for listening!
Steve: You’re listenin to Jonesy’s jukebox on Indie 103.1 with my friend Marco Pirroni, ex Adam and the Ant, now he’s in a bike gang called Wolfmen.
Marco: What’s that other one mate, Wolfsmother?
Steve: Wolfmother.Marco: Yeah ex Wolfmother
Steve: Ex Wolfmother.
Marco: Yeah I left cos I didn’t want to play, “Stonehenge.”
Steve: Yeah now he’s on the subsidiary band, “Wolfmen. “ Gay bikers from Lichtenstein. So do you actually have a band or is just you and the singer right now?
Marco: It’s me and Chris so far but we actually have a bloke called Wildcat Will but he’s in London. He plays drums sometimes.
Steve: You’ve not done any gigs yet?
Steve: And your whole purpose for being in New York and America was to…
Marco: Our whole purpose was to come and see you.
Steve: Well I can’t save ya.
Steve: I can only help. You’re tryin’ to get like a record deal and stuff right?
Steve: What are you tryin’ to do then?
Steve: Get a bike gang over in LA. kind of like the Hells angels?
Steve: They have ‘em in every state.
Marco: Kind of like a real hard one, not like a nancy one like those geezers.
Steve: Not like the original, like in Lichtenstein. (Actually the band that share the name of Marco’s band the ‘less macho’ Wolfmen are from Finland).
Marco: No, no, get out!
Steve: So you’re tryin’ to get one in every state, in every country.
Marco: Yeah like a franchise.
Steve: Yeah. Like the Hells Angels.
Marco: Yeah a bit like that.
Marco: Yeah but Wolfmen written in German Writing (Gothic script).
Marco: Yeah alright “gay” if you like, yes.
Steve: Gay German writing.
Marco: Like pink German writing.
Steve: Pink bright pink.
Marco: That lights up at disco, Saturday Night fever.
Steve: And no real motorbikes, just like pushbikes.
Marco: No cant ride a real motorbike can we? Might fall off and get hurt.
Steve: And yer thinkin’ of the environment as well aren’t yer?
Steve: Like the fumes.
Marco: Well, we’re really thinking most that we don’t want to look stupid.
Marco: And hurt our knees.
Steve: You don’t wear real helmets, you wear the leather hats.
Marco: With the chains across the front, yes.
Steve: Yes, so if you wore helmets you’d fall over, you’d hurt yer (h)‘ead.
Marco: Yeah exactly.
Steve: That’s it.
Marco: Well you know, you’ve done it.
Steve: Yeah, I’m no mug.
Steve: So do you think you’re gonna get a record deal?
Marco: (Clearing throat) I wouldn’t have thought so, no.
Steve: Whole different ball game innit?
Marco: Yeah, no it’s completely different.
Steve: So what’s yer plan then? Give us a bit of yer plan, what would you like, what would be your perfect thing, you want to happen.
Marco: We’d like to do some music for films, we’d like to get some tracks in big television programmes.
Steve: Yeah so would everyone else but what are you gonna do about it?
Marco: Well, I dunno, we’re not sure about it. We thought if we watched telly enough and sort of you know, rubbed the cds along the screen maybe they’d just sort of get on there.
Steve: You know what?
Steve: Mind over matter.
Steve: If you don’t mind, it (both together) don’t matter.
Steve: I’ll help yer.
Marco: Why what are you going to do?
Steve: …but what are you going to do for me?
Marco: What do you want?
Steve: Can you make me like a member of…
Steve: …the wolfmen.
Steve: Can I wear the pink leather hat?
Marco: You can wear what ever you like, as long as it’s really stupid you can wear whatever. Cos of you’ve got yer own bike haven’t you?
Steve: Of course!
Marco: Yeah but we’ve flogged that.
Steve: Oh yeah?
Steve: Is there like an initiation?
Marco: Not really, er well unless there’s something you want to particularly…
Steve: You are all gonna roger me?
Marco: If you want us to. There’s no specific initiation but if there’s something you wanna try that you’ve never done, we’ll ‘ave a go.
Steve: Yeah. I want you all to roger me but I’ll make out that I don’t really want it to happen.
Steve: So you kind of, you know.
Marco: Oh will you be going? “Oooh no, don’t, oooh no.”
Steve: Yeah, you know yer kinda rapin’ me.
Steve: I want that to happen.
Marco: But it’s like yer pretendin’ ain’t you?
Steve: Yeah but don’t let anyone know.
Steve: Don’t let the other guys in the gang know.
Marco: But you gotta (indistinct), while we’re rogerin’ you don’t start laughing and going, “Ooh this is brilliant.”
Steve: (Chokes back a laugh) I wont. Do you know what, the best thing to do is just put some gaffer tape over me mouth. You know what I mean?
Marco: Yeah. Ok.
Steve: Bind me, bind me up.
Marco: Do you want this done like when you don’t know about it like if you’re sittin’ at home one night and we just break in?
Steve: No, I want it when I’m on the bike goin’ down the street.
Marco: No that’s stupid, we have to catch you,runnin’ down the street, catch you, wouldn’t we?
Steve: Ok. then at my house, then when I’m asleep. I’ll leave the door unlocked make it easier for you to get in.
Steve: Just don’t.
Marco: Ok. We won’t wake you up though.
Steve: I don’t want any warnin’s.
Marco: No you won’t get any warnin’s
Steve: Some gaffer tape, bind me. String…
Marco: We’ll just break in one night without phoning you up and warning you.
Steve: But don’t kill me.
Marco: We’re not going to kill you, no we wont kill you.
Steve: Lets play some Adam and the Ants, are you playing guitar on this?
Marco: Yes well I don’t know, I don’t know what you’re gonna play.
Steve: “You’re so physical.” You wrote this as well didn’t you?
Marco: No Adam wrote this. I didn’t write this.
Steve: You wrote a lot of the songs? Co –wrote, like the music?
Steve: And he wrote the lyrics. Alright then, lets play, “You’re so physical,” off… there’s two versions, there’s a version on the BBC that’s pretty good…
Marco: That’s got Matthew on it. Matthew Ashman.
Steve: Oh, no wonder I like that version better.
Marco: You bastard.
Steve: No that’s alright, ok lets take it away, we’re here with Marco Pironni, we’re gonna play some of his guitar work.
Plays the version which appeared on the “b” side of the “Dog eat dog.” single. They return after playing some other songs. The mash up “Problems at the Gaybar” (Go home productions) which Steve dedicates to Marco’s band.
Steve: (referring to the song) Physical, (You’re So). Why’s it in brackets, (You’re so)?
Marco: I don’t know. Cos Adam wanted it like that I think. He wanted it written like that and we thought, “alright if that’s what you want, you can have it, we don’t mind.”
Marco: It doesn’t make any sense but if it makes you happy.
Steve: Well he’s a singer, he makes things difficult,
Marco: For himself.
Steve: And everyone else around him.
Marco: Why, nobody knows.
Steve: But we was talking about how difficult Morrisey is and then we were talking about..well all singers are difficult.
Marco: And how some singers…even more difficult than others and they make life so difficult that it becomes impossible and so nothing ever happens. So they sabotage themselves.
Steve: It is, it’s definitely a sabotage thing going on there.
Marco: By the way, I’m not saying that Adam is like that.
Steve: Well who are you saying then?
Marco: Well I can’t tell you who I’m talking about but I’m not talking about him in particular.
Steve: Yeah I’m not talking about Johnny Rotten then.
Marco: You are. James Baker.Steve: I'm talking about every other singer apart from Adam and the Ant and Johnny Rotten.
Marco: Yeah, they’re all bastards.
Marco: Yeah. Although I met that bloke out of the Spindoctors the other day, he seemed alright. He claimed to not be difficult.
Steve: Is he a singer?
Marco: Yeah, so I didn’t believe him, obviously. But he wasn’t being difficult actually when I was talking to him, he was actually friendly but then again he (indistinct).
Steve: He might have been after something.
Steve: What about Dave Berry, he’s difficult.
Marco: He’s just stupid.
Steve: Wants to hide behind things. That’s difficult.
Marco: Yeah that’s difficult. Because the rest of the band might say, “look this is stupid.”
Steve: We want to be seen and he’s like, “No we wanna hide.” That’s difficult.
Marco: That is really difficult but it’s also stupid.
Steve: Who else, you know, pick any band and lets think of the singer.
Marco: Did we say Morrisey?
Marco: I know who is really difficult. That bloke out of Van Halen. He’s really difficult, er that bloke who used to be in Van Halen.
Steve: David Lee Roth.
Marco: Yeah and they threw him out.
Steve: Yeah another lunatic.
Marco: Didn’t they reform at the MTV.awards and they only reformed for about fifteen minutes and they couldn’t stand him? Like he was alright before they said, “we reformed,” they were probably getting on. Soon as they were back in the band, 10 minutes later, they had split.
Steve: No I know. Unfortunately that’s just the way it is, that’s the making of the singer entertainer, front men. There’s a lot of, for them to be as good as they are you have to deal with their baggage.
Marco: Yeah.Steve: That’s it and that’s their two bob and then no one cares about them and it doesn’t matter if they’re nice to get along with cos their rubbish.
Marco: Yeah. It’s like if they’re great and they go out on stage and they’re brilliant, you think I’ll deal with it.Steve: I’ll swallow it. (Belches).
Marco: I’ll swallow it, because they are in fact really good and it is difficult to do it, so you think I’ll put up with it.
Steve: Yeah, I couldn’t do it.
Steve: It’s a certain type that does it.
Marco: Yeah. I couldn’t do it either.
Steve: Do you think there’s certain types of bass players, drummers and guitar players or they’re just replaceable?
Marco: Um, no I don’t think they’re replaceable, not guitar players, no.
Steve: I’m not.
Marco: No, or me.
Steve: I’m well good
Marco: (laughing) Me too, I’m brilliant.
Marco: Yeah. People always say, “You’re completely irreplaceable, you are.” That’s what they say.
Steve: About me?Marco: Yeah.
Advertising break.Work in progress – more to come! Including some stuff about Satellite and the infamous 100 club punk festival gig, Sid's debut.
Steve: You’re listenin’to Jonesy’s Jukebox on Indie 103.1 with my guest Marco Pirroni. If you don’t know who that is, he was the guitar player in that Adam and the Ant.
Marco: Adam and the Ant.
Steve: Founder member, right?
Steve: You were the man.
Marco: I’m the founder member of the Wolfmen and…
Steve: And you found them and all.
Marco: Gay bike gang.
Steve: Pink. Did you er, have you been since then, you ‘aven’t really done much ‘ave yer?
Marco (Deadpan) No Steve, I’ve done nothing since then. Laughter from Mr Shovel and Marco.
Steve: Do you get bored?
Marco: Yeah I get extremely bored.
Steve: Is that why you’ve started this band, just to do something?
Marco: Er Well I started this band because, yeah, I’ve never really thought of it like that but it wasn’t just to do something but it’s like er – well it’s what I do, innit? And if you don’t do it, you get miserable.
Steve: Yeah but you ain’t done it in years.
Marco: Well I’ve been miserable for years, that’s why.
Steve: Yeah... I... (musing).
Marco: What do you mean, “you ain’t done it in years and you’ve been…?” (laughing).
Steve: How long’s Ant, have you played with Ants? How long’s that been?
Marco: Well I think the Ants split up in ’84 or something but I - you know - I still played with Adam for years after that. I played with Sinead O’ Connor, then I went back to playing with Adam, so it hasn’t been that long since I aven’t done it.
Steve: Have you spoke to Adam lately?
Marco: I haven’t spoken to him but I sort of heard from him. I spoke to him about a year ago was, that was the last time I spoke to him actually.
Steve: How was he doin’ a year ago?
Marco: He was alright a year ago, I mean he is “alright.” He’s fine. Quite exactly where he’s at, I don’t know. I don’t really understand. He’s just had his book out in London.
Steve: What’s it about?
Marco: About him! He’s a singer, it’s bound to be about him, innit?
Steve: Have you ever thought about doin’ a book?
Marco: Yeah, but it wouldn’t be about me, cos I’m not a singer.
Marco: Probably be about you.
Steve: Well that’s alright.
Steve: Do it then!
Steve: I think you should.
Marco: It’d be called, “I love Steve Jones, he’s brilliant!…and here’s why.
Steve: “He started me playing guitar when he heard the riff to “Satellite.”
Marco: I could play guitar already before I heard the riff to “Satellite.”
Steve: Don’t – throw me off.
Marco: Alright. Ok. (Going along with Steve) “I couldn’t play guitar at all, until I heard the riff to “Satellite.” Suddenly, amazingly…
Steve: A light went off.
Marco: Yeah. Whatever light that was in my brain went off and I could play “Satellite.”
Steve: You actually played with Sid with one gig, right?
Steve: And there’s pictures to prove it.
Marco: Yeah there’s real pictures to prove it. Unphotoshopped pictures to prove it.
Steve: At the 100 club, was it the Punk Festival?
Steve: And Sid was playin’ drums?
Steve: You were playin’ guitar, Siouxsie was singing. And who else was in it?
Marco: Steve Severin.
Steve: Steve Havoc.
Marco: Steve Havoc as he was at the time.
Steve: That’s a silly name.
Marco: That’s a stupid name.
Steve: Don’t make no sense.
Marco: Yeah you know especially if you know Steve, he’s like the least Havoc causing person, in fact Steve Havoc, I always thought it sounded a bit like action-man (GI. Joe) or summin, one of them.
Steve: He should have changed it to “Steve Haddock…”
Steve: …would have been a better name. I often think to myself, “Why didn’t I call myself something?”
Marco: Well why didn’t you call yourself “Steve Haddock?”
Steve: No I don’t like that name. I wanted more of a – not so much a punk name – like the stereotypical like what he did, called himself, “Steve Havoc.”
Marco: Yeah but we didn’t know what punk names were, no one had punk names apart from Johnny Rotten and Sid Vicious and of course the great, “Steve Havoc.”
Mr. Shovel: Noxious.
Steve: Yeah, there’s Ken, all these other blokes later called themselves silly names.
Marco: Stupid names, like, you know…
Steve: “Captain Sensible.” Which actually ain’t a bad name.
Marco: That’s actually one of the ones that’s alright. No Rat Scabies is a stupid name.
Steve: Yeah. You don’t like that?
Steve: I don’t mind that, it’s a bit, bit stupid.
Marco: Johnny Moped was a good name.
Steve: Johnny Moped.
Steve: What would you call me if you had to come up with a name for me?
Marco: Well there’s millions.
Steve: Well give us one.
Marco: (exhaling deeply)
Steve: Off the top of yer head.
Marco: “Steve Homo.”
Laughter from Mr. Shovel and Marco.
Steve: I like that! That’s good.
Marco: Because I think that anyone who looks at you immediately thinks, “Steve Homo.”
Marco: Yeah, Steve “Big” Homo, is what they think about you.
Steve: I bet I’ve had more crumpet than you ‘ave.
Marco: I bet you have.
Steve: There’s pictures to prove it.
Marco: Yeah I bet there is.
Steve: Not photoshopped ones either!
Marco: No I bet there aren’t.
Steve: You know that an' all!
Marco: Yeah I do know it.
Steve: You know what I was like.
Marco: Yeah. Are you still like that?
Steve: Yeah but I’m older.
Someone takes a swig from a drink and gulps.
Steve: Didn’t you…?
Marco: Alright, ok.
Steve: Go on, what?
Steve: Come on, spit it out! Come on, now you’ve got your chance.
Marco: While you’re drinking can you like, you know like when ventriloquists got a dummy…?
Marco: And they talk while they are drinking a glass of milk?
Marco: Can you do that on the radio?
Steve: Yeah but no one can see ya.
Marco: Yeah I know but that’s the whole point of doing it, isn’t it?
Steve: Ok. I can drink it right now!
More general laughter.
Steve: So what else you up to?
Marco: That’s it!
Steve: See how good I did that?
Marco: Yeah, that was brilliant. (To the listeners) He is in fact drinking a glass of milk as he is doing it!
Steve: So what else and er yeah, it’s a lovely day out today.
Steve: 82 degrees. How was that?
Marco: That’s fine. I’m not up to anything, I’m doing the Wolfmen, that’s all I’m doing really.
Steve: Yeah. Trying to get a franchise on the gay bike gang.
Marco: Yeah. I’m trying to make a load of money on the Wolfmen before the other Wolfmen find out that we’re nicked their name.
Steve: You know what, you’d probably make more dough…
Steve: …having a gay bike gang called, “The Wolfmen from Lichtenstein.”…
Marco: And franchising it.
Steve: …than messing about with music.
Marco: No I know. You’re right and then you could do kind of like Wolfmen “Health clubs” and aftershave.
Marco: Dolls. What else? Um…mousemats.
Steve: Bike chains.
Marco: Bike chains.
Steve: Pink leather hats.
Marco: With chains across the front.
Steve: Yeah chains across the front, yeah.
Marco: That’s really important that…
Steve: What are the things on the bike on the back wheels?
Marco: Those training wheels.
Steve: Training wheels. You could put “Wolfmother” on the side of them.
Marco: Yeah. That’d look really hard.
Steve: “Wolfmen,” I mean.
Marco: And satchels.
Marco: Big wolf’s head on the thing.
Steve: Leather though.
Marco: Oh yeah like a really hard looking, stupid studded satchel with like a wolf’s head on it. Or what are those…remember those sort of streamers that you used to get on your handlebars?
Marco: Like black ones. Black and pink ones, that’d be nice.
Steve: (Of) course!
Steve: Gotta have them mate. See there’s a whole gamut of things that you could be selling.
Marco: I know.
Steve: Forget music.
Marco: I know.
Steve: You’re wastin’your time.
Marco: I know ah yeah, you’re right.
Steve: You gotta leave it up to the wolfmothers now.
Marco: I’d rather not leave it up to them because if they’re gonna make records like that then, well I dunno what, I’m gonna kill myself.
Steve: They’re pretty popular but I don’t know if it’s gonna
Marco: They’re not popular with me.
Steve: It might be a fad though, kinda Retro…
Marco: What progressive music? “Progressive Rock.” Do you remember we used to go into record shops and there used to be a section was like, “Progressive Rock?”
Steve: Yeah. That was really depressin’
Marco: Cause it was huge it was huge, it was most of the counter was that. (Demonstrating with arms?)
Steve: It was flares and clogs and…
Steve: And moustaches and long hair.
Marco: Yeah and jeanshirts.
Steve: That was depressin’. It wasn’t appealing to me.
Marco: No, or me.
Steve: Was you a big fan of Roxy Music?
Marco: A massive fan of Roxy Music, in fact I still am.
Steve: Great, they're great ain’t they?
Steve: I love ‘em.
Marco: So what you say, “there were two blokes makin’ a documentary?”
Steve: I dunno if it’s two blokes but they’re doin’ a Roxy Music documentary that I participated in.
Marco: Right. Why don’t they ask me?
Steve: I actually mentioned before we started filming, they said that they saw you at the hotel, they’re stayin’ at the same hotel. I said to ‘em I said, “Marco, I bet ” I said, “he’d be good,” I said, “I bet he’s a big Roxy Music fan.”
Marco: I’m a massive Roxy Music...I’d love to do it.
Steve: I said, “anyone,” I said, “I bet Siouxsie, I bet all them…”
Marco: Everybody would be…
Steve: Anyone from that era, they all was involved in that time, would be massive Roxy Music fans and I told them that.
Marco: Cos you, the Pistols were called “The Strand.”
Steve: Exactly. I said that. Before Rotten it was me and Cookie and Wally we called ourselves, “Strand” for ten minutes.
Marco: Cos of the song?
Steve: You dummy, ‘cause, what did you think it was?
Marco: I dunno. Well obviously I knew that, well I guessed that.
Steve: You knew.
Marco: Yeah, of course I knew. So what shall I do, how can I find these blokes?
Steve: They wasn’t interested in ya.
Steve: When I mentioned it, yeah.
Marco: What like really like? “No we don’t care.”
Steve: They said er…
Marco: “He’s rubbish.”
Steve: They said, “We don’t want ‘im, he can’t even play Satellite!” both laugh.
Marco: What the…I can’t play “Satellite?” You came round my house and I had to teach you how to play “Satellite.”
Steve: No Chris Spedding played “Satellite,” mate.
Marco: Oh yeah, that’s right cos he played guitar on all the Sex Pistol songs didn’t he?
Steve: Yeah. But I want to go back to…how did that come about with Sid playin’ drums? This was obviously before Adam?
Steve: And was that like you guys formin’ a band right there and then?
Marco: No, it wasn’t at all like formin’ a band. Malcolm had said that Siouxsie and Steve should have a band. I don’t know if they wanted to, they probably didn’t.
Steve: Because they were part of the Bromley Contingent?
Steve: They used to come to all the Pistol gigs.
Marco: Yeah and he said (Mock creepy Malcolm Maclaren voice) “Oh you should have a band.” You know what he used to be like and they said, “Yes.” Not in fact probably meaning, “Yes,” probably meaning, “No,” is what they really meant.
Steve: Right, that’s why you say, “Yes” when you mean “No”.
Marco: Well yeah, well you know what Malcolm’s like, you say “Yes” to Malcolm, to shut ‘im up so he’ll go away.
Steve: Right. Go on then.
Marco: “Yes go away do what ever you want, just leave me alone Malcolm.”
Steve: Yeah, “take me money, I don’t care.”
Marco: Yeah. So he put them on the poster with you lot and so they had to get a band together but I think they kind of avoided, you know skirted round the subject and hadn’t thought about it ‘til about…
Steve: The day of.
Marco: It was actually Sunday night and the festival was on Tuesday night, so they had a day to get it together. And they hadn’t bothered to you know, sort of think about it and Billy Idol was going to play guitar but then, he didn’t want to do it. So then they asked Sid…no, didn’t they ask me, I can’t remember. They asked both of us cos…
Steve: Could you play guitar at this point?
Steve: You could play a bit of guitar.
Marco: I’d learned to play “Satellite,” before you’d actually recorded it, or written it in fact.
Steve: I understand.
Marco: Yeah (Laughing).
Steve: I get that a lot. Lot of blokes come up to me and say that.
Marco: Yeah, I get that a lot they say, “I invented…”
Steve: They say. (Changing tack again to the 100 Club) How did you come on the scene to be in the band then, Malcolm asked you?
Marco: No, no,no, Malcolm didn’t ask me, Siouxsie and Steve asked me.
Steve: Cos you were friends with them?
Marco: Yeah well I wasn’t really friends with them, I just knew them and someone said, “Marco can play guitar.” And they said, “Do you want to do it?” I said, “Yeah alright.” And that was it really.
Steve: And then how did Sid come about?
Marco: They’d asked him separately but they wanted him to play drums and I didn’t know he could play drums, in fact no one knew he could play drums.
Steve: You actually did a couple of songs didn’t you?
Marco: No we didn’t do any songs.
Steve: You did, I remember hearing you guys bashing away there or something.
Marco: No but…
Steve: Was that in the soundcheck?
Marco: No we didn’t do a soundcheck. We didn’t know what a soundcheck was.
Steve: But there’s pictures of you on the stage!
Marco: No what we were gonna do was we tried to rehearse…We were gonna do a set of cover versions of songs we didn’t like.
Marco: And then so…but then we tried to play one of these songs we didn’t like which I think was “Captain Scarlet” or something. (The theme from Gerry Anderson puppet tv. show - in the same type as Thunderbirds). Or some other song that we really didn’t like so we thought, “That’s a great… we hate that song, we must do it.” And we couldn’t play it…I could play it a little bit, I could play the first bit. But it…well really after 30 seconds, we realised we couldn’t play at all. So we decided instead of there and then saying, “We can’t play, we don’t have any songs, we can’t play any songs, we’ve never had any stage experience.” Instead of there and then saying, “It’s probably best we don’t do it,” we didn’t think that. We thought, “Lets just do it anyway.” It was like that really.
Steve: So you did it!
Marco: We did it, yeah.
Steve: That’s what I’m saying!
Steve: You played!
Mr. Shovel: (Laughing).
Marco: No…Yes, yeah but we didn’t play any songs, we didn’t have any songs.
Steve: Oh, you’re doing the “Yes No” thing. “Yes” means “No,” thing?
Steve: That means “Yes” then!
Marco: I don’t know. Look we didn’t have any…we didn’t play any songs, we didn’t have any songs, did we?
Steve: I know but I remember seeing you.
Marco: But we played.
Steve: Yeah right.
Marco: But we played but we didn’t have any songs you said, “You played some songs.” We didn’t play any songs, didn’t know any songs.
Steve: So what did you actually do on the stage then?
Marco: We made an enor…(mous) I just made loads and loads of feedback and after about 10 minutes, right? So it was supposed to be like. Basically after we’d about 2 minutes we started, I started thinking actually, “This is alright.” It’s sort of like “Sister Ray,” as done by the Glitter Band. I think, sort of good idea really.
Steve: So after the gig, what happened? Why didn’t you continue?
Marco: We didn’t continue because, well you know Sue (Siouxsie) and Steve wanted to have a serious band and they didn’t want a band with two idiots like me and Steve, er like me and Sid.
Marco: And then Sid got arrested the next night so that was all over.
Steve: Really, what for?
Marco: You know for throwin’ the glass.
Steve: At Bob Harris?
Marco: No he threw it at um…
Steve: Nick Kent?
Marco: No, that bloke out of the Damned, cos he was wearin’ white flares. (Variant tale of this infamous incident, other sources cite that Sid wasn’t even present that night the Sex Pistols played).
Steve: Captain Sensible?
Marco: Yeah But it missed, it missed and then it hit some girl in the eye. (Shattered against a pillar, spraying glass some of which went into this girl’s eye, is the conventional story). Then they carted ‘im off.
Marco: And then they put him in Ashford Remand Home for about two weeks.
Steve: I was in there too.
Marco: Were you?
Steve: Yeah for about two weeks yeah, ‘orrible place cos like, it was like a proper prison, they had cells with the little peep’oles. Scary place.
Marco: OK. So then they let ‘im out and then he, he joined you lot.
Marco: So then the, the whole thing sort of fell apart and then Siouxsie and Sid never called me.
Steve: What did you think of…did you see the Pistols with Sid playin’ bass?
Marco: Er yeah I did, I saw you, er when you did Screen on The Green, the first time you did Screen on the Green.
Steve: Well the first time we did it was with Glen.
Marco: No, no,no. The first time you did it with Sid.
Marco: You did it twice with Glen, didn’t you?
Steve: So what did you think, did you think back then?
Marco: “What did I think?” “Did I think then?”
Steve: Yeah, did you actually use your head?
Steve: Did you think it was better with or without?
Marco: I thought it was better with Glen.
Steve: Yeah.. Better chemistry?
Marco: Better chemistry.
Steve: Even though Sid looked the part?
Marco: Yeah, he looked brilliant, in fact, I hate to say this but you all looked brilliant that night. There was a particular bit where Johnny, wassisname?
Marco: Put his arms up in the air, it was just, it was f…it was great.
Steve: Don’t swear.
Marco: Sorry. It was brilliant. No I didn’t swear.
Steve: You almost.
Marco: But I don’t know, I don’t know, yeah you’re right, the chemistry was weird. The chemistry was offset.
Steve: I think he would have been a good front man, Sid.
Marco: I think he would have done actually.
Steve: The chemistry was messed up for me because…
Marco: But I tell you what I thought, I though that because there was you and Paul and Glen you could all play. I know that everyone says that you couldn’t but you actually could. You were actually a really good band. And that all works with Rotten being in the middle being mental.
Steve: Yeah.Marco: But two mental people and two sort of sensible people doesn’t work. It all throws it all off.
Steve: No you’re right, I agree. And because of that, it didn’t last that long.
Marco: No, it couldn’t do really. Because if you’ve got, you know it’s like (indistinct the oldest?) being in a band, it’s like one person can spoil the thing for…cos it doesn’t matter about how hard the three others work.
Steve: If you had like the, lets just say like The Who f’rinstance? If you had another bloke like the ox, who was like Townshend jumpin’ around like a lunatic…
Marco: It wouldn’t work. No if you had another…no exactly cos it would just be everywhere. There would be nothing to anchor it down.
Steve: Oh well, that was a nice story.
Break for another set of songs. One of which is the Go Home Productions Sex Pistols Cher mash-up “No Feelings for Cher.”
Marco: So the Sex Pistols were an offshoot of the Strand?
Steve: Pretty much, yeah. That’s why we picked Chris…
Marco: Well how many songs did you ‘ave? What songs did you do when you were in the Strand?
Steve: I think we ‘ad “Did you no Wrong.” And some Small Faces songs, “All or nothing.”
Marco: Did you do er…
Steve: A song called “Scarface.” That er…
Marco: What was that, “Understanding?”
Steve: That was a Small Faces song I think yeah.
Marco: I remember that song but you stopped doing it didn’t you?
Steve: I don’t remember.
Marco: No you did it in the Pistols but then you stopped doing it.
Steve: We actually played it?
Marco: Well I thought you did, yeah, no you did. I thought I’d dreamt it but apparently someone else said you did. (Ahem. A live version of “Understanding” is on the Virgin “Sex Box” 3cd. set. As Phil over at Sex-Pistols.net says, an essential collection for any Sex Pistols fan. ”Understanding” was in the Sex Pistols set but probably dropped according to the sleeve notes because Lydon felt that the Pistols had enough Small Faces covers already. This is not an exact quote of Lydon or the sleeve notes but that’s the gist of the speculation). Back to the interview…
Steve: Well maybe they dreamt the same dream.
Marco: But it’s never been kind of recorded in the, “Annals”.
Steve: Yeah I don’t remember playin’ it live.
Marco: Well you did.
Steve: Maybe you came down to a rehearsal or somethin’?
Marco: Now I did come to your rehearsals once.
Steve: That’s how you nicked the bleedin’ riff off of “Satellite.”
Steve: And before that was Cher singing “No feelings.”
Marco: That was brilliant!
Marco: Do you make these records at home on your own? (Referring to the Sex Pistol mash-ups in the show).
Steve: No this bloke in England does ‘em in his bedroom. In Watford.
Marco: Do you hire him?
Steve: No he just does ‘em.
Steve: I didn’t mention it to him. Although I have been drivin’ him nuts to do a song by Shabby Tiger. Do you remember Shabby Tiger?
Steve: And some other band and he keeps saying he’s gonna do it but he ain’t. So I’m waiting for that.They pick up guitars and play a melodic non mental version of “Satellite.”
Steve: I wish I could remember words, I can never remember words
Marco: You don’t have to, you’re a singer.
They have decided to play “Apache” the old Shadows number.
Marco: I should just explain to listeners that I haven’t played “Apache,” for over 30 years.
Steve: Do you want a medal?
Marco: Yeah I do actually, alright. So it’s gonna be rubbish right, so but it was rubbish in the first place.
Steve: That’s good confidence for yer.
Marco: It’s not confidence it’s just…
Steve: No wonder you don’t have a record deal.
Steve: OK. right I’m gonna start, you’re doin;’ the lead business cos you’ve got the electric.
Marco: Yeah but…alright, it’s gonna be.
Steve: Just get on with it, shut up, ready here we go.
Marco: I’ve forgotten the intro.
Steve: Let me go round a couple of time.
Steve: You ‘ave ruined it already.They jam “Apache” The song finishes.
Steve: Stick to the gay bike gang from Lichtenstein.
Marco: Yeah I’m good at that.
Steve: Yeah, at lookin’ ‘ard…
Marco: Gay biking.
Steve: Pink leather hat on yer banana bike.
Marco: You must remember “Motorbikin’?”
Marco: But you know that bloke who played guitars on the Sex Pistol records?
Steve: Chris Spedding?
Marco: Remember ‘im don’t ya?
Marco: What did he say when he came in, well when you was like playin’ guitar that was probably rubbish and he said, “give us that, I can do it much better than you!”
Steve: No Micky Most said let him play it.
Marco: Alright. So played bass then?
Steve: I went an ‘ad a brass round er Denmark Street while they was doin’ the guitarin’. (Brass rubber=scrubber or prostitute). I spent a tenner on a brass.
Marco: Well that’s alright.
Steve: It all worked out alright.
Marco: Yeah it did.
Marco: How many people think that Chris Spedding played guitar on the Sex Pistol records?
Steve: Well I tell everyone, so…most people.
Marco: Yeah but that’s a double bluff, cos people don’t believe you.
Steve: Well you tell ‘em then!
Marco: Chris Spedding played all the guitars on the Sex Pistol records and all the Adam and the Ants records and all the Roxy Music records.
Steve: Well there you go, now that’s confirmed.
They jam, “The price of love.”
“I got a gay bike gang in Lichtenstein, they're called the Wolfmen and they're ready to rock.
Steve: You’re listenin to Jonesy’s jukebox with my guest Marco Pirroni.
Marco: Otherwise known as Morris Plackett.
Steve: His real name is Morris Plackett yeah.
Marco: Who was Morris Plackett? Was he the bloke who owned the shop?
Steve: It was our version of “Guitar centres,” weren’t it – music shop. On Shepherd’s Bush Road it was.
Marco: They’ve got the “Guitar centre” and we had Morris Plackett.
Steve: And rentals you could rent his clobber.
Marco: But you could only rent like Selmer amps couldn’t you?Steve: Yeah. I nicked a bunch of stuff out of there.
Marco: I did once actually. I nicked some high hats for some reason.
Marco: That’s probably why they went bust, they never sold anything.
Steve: Morris Plackett, what a name! That would have been a good punk name. Sid Vicious and then there’s Morris Plackett.
They both find the Morris Plackett thing hilarious.
Marco: That’s a great name for you actually.
Steve: Yeah? I like Steve ‘Omo.
Marco: Yeah I like that too.
Steve: Do you want me to change it?
Steve: Steve Homo.
Marco: No keep it like that forever now.
Steve: Do you remember Omo? It was a washing powder weren’t it?
Marco: Omo yeah. My mum used to use it.
Steve: OMO, like “Persil.” Do you remember Penny for the Guy?
Steve: Did you ever make a guy?
Marco: I can’t remember.
Steve: It was Guy Fawkes Sunday weren’t it?
Marco: They don’t still do it though do they? Remember when you could just go in and buy fireworks from any shop? Any age. Like 3 year olds buying massive rockets.
Steve: Bangers, yeah. You can’t do that now?
Marco: No, it’s all against the law.
Steve: Course it’s probably terrorists right? They think it’s bombs goin’ off.
Marco: Yeah probably cos of terrorists and 3 year olds were killing themselves or killing their parents by putting bangers in petrol tanks and things.
Steve: Yeah well that’s alright.
Marco: Who hasn’t done that eh?
They jam again, something “soppy and sincere.”
Marco: That’s rubbish, no the way you are playing it is alright but what you are playing is just kack.
Steve: You’re never gonna get a record deal you know that, you’ve just ruined yer chance now.
Marco: I’ll never work in this town again?
Steve: You’ll never get a record deal, I’m gonna make sure of it. How dare you!
Marco: As I’ve never worked in this town before, it’s never gonna matter.
Steve: How dare you insult me!
Marco: (Laughing) “Don’t you know who I am?”
Steve: Now if anyone wanted to buy any of your music, how would they get it?
Marco: They can’t, they have to rent it.
Steve: From Morris Plackett’s?
They crack up laughing.
Steve: Yeah you have to go down Shepherd’s Bush Road, go in and say.. actually you have to go out the back, it’s like a little password, you say: “Wolfmen, gingers.” They take you in the back...
Marco: And you say, “I’d like to rent a Wolfman single for 24 hours.” You ‘ave to leave ‘em a deposit, like 20p or something and then you ‘ave to bring it back the next day and if you’re late, they charge you extra.
Marco: Did you ever rent anything from Morris Plackett, you never brought anything back did you?
Steve: I don’t remember. I didn’t rent anything, I just nicked everything.
Marco: No I don’t think I ever rented anything from Morris Plackett. What’s those other people, Orange, what about them? Weird…
Steve: Down Shaftesbury Avenue.
Marco: Yeah that was a weird concept for an amp, “lets make it orange.” Why?
Steve: Cos it’s bright and everyone’ll look at it.
Marco: Yeah but you don’t want ‘em to look at it, do you?
Steve: It draws everyone’s attention.
Marco: Yeah lets put like huge knobs on it, so it’s like a Chad Valley (Toy manufacturer).
Steve: It was pants. It didn’t sound any good did it?
Marco: No. It looked rubbish and they were rubbish.
Steve: Sounded rubbish, no one back in the day used that stuff.
Marco: Some people did.
Steve: Progressive Rock Stuff.
Marco: No people in Gentle Giant, I bet they had one. They probably had an orange bass rig, didn’t they?
Marco: But no I don’t know where you can buy a record, you can buy it from Amoeba I think.
Steve: Your record? Do you have a website?
Marco: Yeah. http://www.wolfmen.net/.
Steve: Gay wolfmen Lichtenstein.com
Marco: Yeah but how hard is it to find a band called Wolfmen? You just put Wolfmen in.
Steve: And then dot com?
Marco: Yeah and then these gay bikers come out and that’s not us actually.
Steve: Oh so they might come up if you put Wolfmen in there? The gay blokes?
Marco: Lets find out, the wolfmen.
Steve: Oh you’re THE wolfmen?
Marco: They are THE wolfmen too. We are the Wolfmen, they are the Wolfmen.
Steve: So you’re both the same?
Steve: Well let’s go and…let’s play a song, what is this, is this your er?
Marco: New single out next week.
Steve: What like you’ve ‘ad singles before?
Steve: This is the debut single.
Marco: Debut single, the other thing was an ep.
Steve: What’s this called, this song?
Marco: Called “Karma Sutra.”
Steve: And you’re playin’ guitar?
Marco: I’m playin’guitar.
Steve: And ole matey boy is singing.
Marco: And ole matey boy is singing.
Steve: And who else?
Marco: That’s it.
Steve: Drum machine?
Marco: There’s a drum machine, we wanted to make it like, I dunno why…
Steve: Wanted to make it sound like eighties, kinda?
Marco: Yeah we wanted to make it sound like Depeche Mode. Cos it really really sounds like Depeche Mode.
Steve: Where did you get the drum machine from? Morris Placketts?
Marco: Yes a Korg minipops we got from Morris Plackett’s.
Steve: OK. lets hear it then, this is the debut single of Wolfmen, who knows how long they’re gonna be around but it’s look like they might be doin’ something. They’re tryin’ to look for a record deal right. Are you lookin’ for a record deal?
Marco: No we’re not lookin’ for a record deal.
Steve: (Exasperated) Well what are you doin’ out here then?
Marco: I don’t know. We came to see you.
Steve: OK. How was it then?
Marco: It was brilliant.
Steve: OK. great.
Marco: And we thought you might have some useful advice but I mean that was a stupid idea, you’ve just got stupid advice like, “dress up like gay bikers,” you said.
Steve: That is not stupid.
Steve: I’m tryin’ to give you an image.
Steve plays a sample: “such a fine line between stupid and clever.”
Steve: See? Lets hear this two bob song.
Steve plays the Wolfmen’s new single “Karma Sutra.” Followed by “Champion the Wonder Horse.”
Steve: I think you should do that version of “Champion the Wonder Horse.”
Marco: Yeah no, I think you’re right.Steve: Because it makes sense, a bike gang, wonder horse, you know what I mean?
Marco: Yeah, I know it makes a sort of sense to you, er.
Steve: I’m tryin’ to get you an image here. Pink leather hats.
Marco: Alright, we can do a version for you, what time would you like it?
Steve: Where are you gonna get the gear from…
Marco: Ummm, (Realises another this is another Morris Plackett joke and they both start laughing).
Steve: No one knows what were talkin’ about, you have to have been there I guess.End of transcription.